Neysa Camacho Interview
Nov 30, 2007 7:54 PM
(re)Mixed Media
Read the entire "New Rules of the Game" article on the state of urban music production.
Neysa Camacho is CEO and President of NQC Management, Entertainment and Publishing, and also head of Baseline Recording Studios and Fort Knocks Entertainment, which she co-owns with Just Blaze in NYC.
Remix: Songwriting - especially in pop, dance, hip hop and R&B - certainly has changed over recent years. Today, we’re seeing much more interaction between the producer and the artist/writers, very early on, typically during the pre-production/beat-making process in the studio. The “blurred line of songwriting and beatmaking,” is at what point does the producer become a co-writer and get credit?
NC: In hip-hop, the producer is essentially the composer where I know in other music the producer isn’t always the person who creates the music – they’re more like the director in movies where they bring everybody together. In hip-hop, the producer is the composer, so he’s a part of the songwriting process and does share a portion of the royalties. A whole song consisting of music and lyrics is 100-percent. There are people who try to argue this, but the fair way of doing this is 50 to the composer, 50 to the lyricist. But, it gets tricky when there’s a sample involved, and your status as a producer. Sometimes people try to get over and, you know, go ‘you don’t deserve this’. But, you have to make sure that when you’ve already started producing and your songs are going on an album that you have an attorney or a manager who understand publishing.
Remix: Over the years, labels have had a lot of follow-the-leader mentality as far as you hear a hit song today, and you’ll hear 100 more that sound just like it in coming months. But, we’re also constantly hearing from A&R heads that they’re looking for something fresh. From your experience managing super producers like Just Blaze, which is it you hear requested most of your clients – to mimic the hits or be totally original?
NC: What are they really looking for? You kind of get two different calls. With Just being the type of producer that he is, sometimes I get a call where it’s like, they just want him to do a track where he does what he does, which is a fortunate situation because he gets a lot of creative freedom, and also there’s a lot of trust associated in that situation because he gets to do what he wants to do because they trust his opinion. But also, when he’s got a really hot song out, I get a lot of calls “I want something that sounds like that”. So it kinda goes both ways – when he does something new and fresh, everybody wants that same thing, they want something to reflect that type of sound.
Remix: What about a new talent, then? New talent looking to make a great impression; since they don’t already have a track record, what should they be doing to attract A&R?
NC: From a new producer, I’d definitely recommend doing something that’s never…I mean, it’s hard to say something that has never been done before but…it’s really out there, you know what I mean? If you’re creative enough, you should be able to figure it out. Don’t go doing something that everybody else has done, or taking elements of other people’s sounds, sounds that are obvious, you know? I mean, there are so many producer battles that we go to and that Just will be a judge on them, and you hear lots of copycats. That’s the last thing you want to hear… that’s the last thing Just or A&R want to hear. Why would I want to discover new talent if the person who does it already exists or is already in the business and is doing his thing and is successful at it? I mean it’s like, okay, well maybe I can get something that sounds similar to Just but for a cheaper price, but it’s still not Just – A&R’s not going to want that. A rapper’s not going to want that. They’re going to want the real thing.
So, I think the best thing is to really do ‘you’, you know, what makes you feel good, what will work for you. It’s not to say don’t be influenced by other producers’ sounds, but the ones that will stand out are the ones who really go to the left and take it somewhere different and are bold enough. And that gets recognized. Even if it’s not accepted right away, people DO recognize when you stray from the norm and when you’re not doing what everybody else is doing…you know, it’s definitely respected.
Whether or not it works is a different story, but at the end of the day, just don’t sound like anybody else. Don’t incorporate sound elements – if somebody already uses a particular sound, stay away from that sound, just do something else. You know there are new producers who actually think they’re impressing Just, for example, by being able to use a sound, combine the sounds, or manipulate a sample the same way that he does and, HE does that already, you know what I mean? Like, we don’t need ten Picassos, we need only one. The same goes in music - we don’t need ten Just Blazes, you need one…and a Dr.Dre, a Pharrell, a Timbaland, a Swizz, and so on – that’s the way it works, they all their own elements that they use, and their own signatures sounds that work. Just because they use those sounds doesn’t mean those are the only sounds that are hot. This is what works for them, just find what works for you.
Remix: What’s the typical structure of today’s production budget?
NC: Pretty much, I negotiate the fee initially with the A&R. I don’t want to say never, but it’s extremely rare that I do all-in deals – where we’re paying for the studio, musicians and whatever costs are incurred creating the music. The fee that I negotiate with A&R is a fee that is charged against royalties, it’s pretty much an advance against royalties. And, that fee essentially needs to be recouped from record royalties. And that’s all dependant upon sales. So, Just won’t see any more money, for example, off that particular track from the record label – and this is only on the producer side, not on the author or composer side – until that amount of money is recouped from the album.
As for the going rates, it’s a little hard in this climate right now in terms of the budgets, to get that $80-100k, to be completely honest. The budgets just are not capable of handling fees of that, unless you’re selling 8-10 million albums. Because record sales are so low right now, overall it has a trickle-down effect. If the roster at a record label is not really selling records as a whole, then it affects everyone, every artist on that label. The labels are much more conservative and they’re watching every penny. Like, before you go into every session, you definitely need to have it approved on the financial end, and they’re limiting.
Remix: Are the labels looking more for catalogued beats now just for that very reason?
NC: Considering how busy Just is, he doesn’t have a lot of those sitting around. He’s very much on an artist-by-artist basis. Everything he does now is pretty much for something in particular, and it’s been like that for the past two or three years. When we do have some catalog, it’s because he’s created something for someone and they didn’t end up using it. And, you know, the labels always ask, but with him, he’s more about the vibe of the artist and go in and creative specifically for that artist.
Remix: How much can a new producer expect today? For hip-hop, and then say for R&B?
NC: For a new producer? If you can get $5,000, that’s decent. A lot of times, you kinda have to pay your dues. Even if your beat is amazing but you don’t have a track record… if you don’t have a discography, if you don’t have any hits, you’re not going to get anything substantial. And, like I said, it comes with the territory. Work your way up that ladder to gain that respect, improve your consistency and your talent. So, I’d say that $5,000 is a decent place to start, but you won’t always get that. And it also depends on who you’re affiliated with.
Remix: But always start with something. I’ve heard that don’t necessarily want to do work for free, absolutely nothing, because it devalues your skillz, right?
NC: I would never recommend doing it for free. Well, it depends. If you’re working a record label and they have a budget, I’d always recommend getting something. If you’re working with an independent artist on an independent label, then I would consider it, but not without some time of protection like a one-page producer agreement basically saying, you know, I’ll do this on spec now, but if you do decide to do the track, this is how much I would like to get and my publishing is X, Y, Z.
I’m not completely opposed to it under the right circumstances – you know, I wouldn’t go to Def Jam and give them a free track – never – I know that at the end of the day they could give me $1000, and that is not going to kill them. But, when you’re dealing with an artist directly who may not have a deal, then I’d consider it.
Remix: What new ways are producers looking toward for extra revenue and compensation to supplement their regular producer fees? Walk us through every possible means of income you would typically try and negotiate for a producer in today’s new climate.
NC: I’ve been really fortunate with Just, that even though the climate is really bad, and maybe his fees are a little bit lower now than before, he’s stayed working all through it. The calls have not stopped. And at the end of the day, that’s what’s amazing; if you’re really good at what you do, you will survive. There’s always gonna be a need for music.
For the newer producers, I’d definitely entertain new media because it gives you the opportunity to create music and it’s not driven by your name, per se. You know, A&R wants a big name. When you’re dealing with soundtracks and commercials, they just want it to sound right. But, as far as becoming a hip-hop producer working on albums, I think there’s really no other way to do it than the way hip-hop works, you know, really hustling and creating relationships. The new media is cool just to try and make music and keep it going in some capacity, but major label production is an exclusive club, but if you are good at what you do, you will get into it. I mean, Just was always an amazing producer, but it took many years for him to get the respect that he gets now. As a producer, the most important thing to remember is that you need to remember is you need to stay relevant, consistent and constantly evolve.
Remix: Is the hip-hop and urban music industry healthy going into 2008? How do you see it evolving in the next 5 years, given where we’re at today and the criticism it’s taking?
NC: Yeah, that is a difficult question! (laughs) I think that for the past year or two, it hasn’t been good. I can’t blame it on the talent – well, I can partially blame it on the talent – but what we need to recognize is that the talent is put there by someone else. Artists do not become artists without the help of a record label and I think that, honestly, where it really needs to start is we really need fresh, new music. I think that the executives that we currently have – and I’m not saying every single one of them – but, the overall, they’re just doing a job, they’re just getting a check. For the most part it’s the same executives that have been here for years, their ears are really not tuned to what the streets are doing and in turn the people who ARE fresh and new are not being allowed to bring that creativeness out to the public because they’re being stifled by people who want things a certain ways. They have a formulaic way of creating a hit, and if that’s not what you’re doing, then they don’t want to hear it.
You know, if you think back about 10 years ago, that’s not how hip-hop started. It was just what was hot, and we put it out. We weren’t going into the studio and saying “we’re gonna create a single.” No. We went into the studio, we created an album, and then singles were picked. We’re doing the reverse now, and I think that, in doing the reverse, everything’s gotten screwed up. Even we as creative people are stuck to that formula because they’re the ones telling us what to do at the end of the day. We’re not going to get paid unless they get what they want. And it’s backwards. Before, it was, we told them what we wanted. And it worked. And now they’ve put it in their hands and they think they’ve got it down to a science. Art is not like that. There is no science in art. It is what it is. And now we’re sitting here and trying to create a formula and saying okay, well, we have an album but we have no singles? Ten years ago I could not imagine having an album with no singles. I mean, what happened to making great albums? And I really do think that any new executives who really are about making music is what’s going to make the difference. I think at some point people are going to see…numbers don’t lie, you know? Kanye has proven that people will still buy music.
As digital as we are right now, people will still go out to the store and buy CDs, you know? It’s not obsolete yet. And I think the only reason that it seems it could be obsolete is because the talent is not being fostered you know? The executives are not pushing the envelope, or not sticking their necks out and saying “I believe in this artist, they’re great, I’m gonna market and promote them, I’m gonna put my money behind them”. Now it’s, “you don’t have a single, I don’t know if I can market and promote you” or “you’re not fitting my formula, I don’t know if I can give you a release date.” It’s completely unfair – if you don’t sound like what’s out now, they don’t care. It’s so backwards, it’s NOT what hip-hop is all about.
Remix: So, going back, you said CDs aren’t dead yet, not in your eyes at least. And that the album is something you’d like to see come back. Can we not collect from this, then, that a new artist should perhaps concentrate on building a strong, compelling story in their work instead of trying to shoot just for that one hit? In other words, put together a full CD and look at themselves in the traditional sense of an early artist, as a long-term project?
NC: Definitely. That is my theory a hundred percent. Because, music and art do not lie. If it’s great, it’s great. And it’s all based on people’s opinion, but when something is really that good, it becomes undeniable. You know, being a one-hit wonder or having that one song that is hot is not going to sell. We’ve seen it time and time and time again, it’s just “okay, so I know you now, but I’ll forget you tomorrow. What are you going to do make me want that next album…to want that next song…to keep me wanting more? Get me involved! I wanna fall in love with who you are. I don’t wanna just dance to the song tonight and never even wanna hear it again tomorrow.
Like I said, it really starts with the artist development. Mariah has a following because she is cool with her fans, she puts them first. Kanye makes music that’s relatable, you know what I mean? There has to be some type of connection with the consumer, with your fans. If you’re just teaching me how to do a dance, I’ll do the dance and hit the club while it’s hot, and after that, I really don’t care about you. It doesn’t matter who you were; you could’ve been Joe Shmoe from down the street singing the same exact song, I would’ve done the same exact thing and you would have gotten the same exact results.
You definitely have to find a connection with your audience, cuz without that you’re not going to sell anything. That’s the problem now, there’s just no connection, no good music. It’s just “let’s see what hits.” It’s all about charts and formulas. This is not science, we don’t need charts and formulas. I mean, as much business as it is, at the end of the day it still is art, and it’s really hard to make a business out of art.
Remix: What would you like to see brought back from hip-hop’s past?
NC: Artistic integrity. Because the industry is so driven by the one hit, we don’t have our Celine Dions, our Mariah Careys – stars aren’t being made anymore. Look at who’s selling records right now – we’ve got American Idol artists because they develop a following, you see them going through their trials and tribulations, you’re watching them develop as an artist. So when you get the album, you feel that there’s some type of connection there. You’ve seen them go through what they’ve had to go through, you’ve watched them evolve, and now you have this package here that means something to you - you have this connection.
Remix: When do you feel a new artist or producer needs a manager?
NC: I mean, everybody’s gonna feel like they’re ready. For instance, this one particular producer who I’m thinking of working with, Apple Juice Kid, I saw him at a producer battle and his stuff sounded really good. And you know, I had a meeting with him and I realized just how much he was doing for himself. I like to see that. I like to see that someone is trying to do something for themselves versus just come to me and saying “I want you to help me sell beats.”
I wanna see that you’re working as hard as you’d want me to work for you. Really get out there, network, get into beat battles and work on your craft. Once you’re really out there and get a feel for what’s going on, if you’re getting interest from other people and you’re ready to take that next step, I think that’s definitely when you need a manager. Not when you just decide you want to make beats, just starting out…no, no, don’t waste anyone’s time with that. You’re in a place to do it on your own. If I DO sell a beat at that point, and I put you in a room with an artist and you’re all over the place and you don’t know what you’re doing and you don’t understand the process, that’s embarrassing for me, you know? You really have to know what you’re doing and be comfortable and confident. I’d definitely say confidence is important; not OVER confident, cuz guys have a tendency to let their egos get in the way. But confident where you believe what you’re doing.
Remix: That comes with experience, and I guess that starts in your own back yard. Get your hands on local artists and get not just your technical but your interpersonal skills going.
NC: Exactly, because interpersonal skills as a producer are very important.
| Want to use this article? Click here for options! |  |
